[ ooc: from here, so as not to clog the post with a locked thread. ]
Which was also a stupid move that clearly did do some damage to the general reputation of void-touched overall. [ That can't be denied. ]
And, yeah, we might have gotten any info sooner had that not happened.
[ There may be no way to say for sure on that one or not. What was done was done. ]
But, it clearly wasn't an action taken that was agreed upon by all void-touched, so if she's withholding that information that might help everyone — herself and Rubeans included — based on the actions of one, still sounds like she has the bigger trust issues here than some of us do. [ Which is saying something. ] Thus leading to more people not willing to trust her immediately because they don't know if or when she'll turn on them too if one person decides to go be a dumbass.
[ exhibit A of those 'more people': him. ]
But, yeah, sure, there's definitely valid concern that if she talks about her enemies and what they're like, people here who don't like her at all could easily learn strengths and weaknesses on both sides and then use them against her. But at the end of the day, the void-touched didn't decide to be here, so it's not really on us to be the ones to work harder in proving we're worth being trusted. Not to say we shouldn't try at all, but ninety percent of the work isn't ours to do; to lead, she should convince us.
To go on a little bit of a tangent, I could have saved myself so many god damn headaches opting for leading with a little more willingness to offer a second chance instead of removing people for an infraction. [ Even though Cheryl had left her obvious calling card of a lipstick kiss print on a painting while she and Toni were stealing shit in Hiram Lodge's place, kicking her and Toni out of the Serpents for tying the rest of them to it with the obvious evidence, it did wind up splintering the group. So. Not the best move for keeping cohesion. ]
But back to her and here, attempted murder isn't exactly minor, but again, if that one action means all of us need to be looked at like we all had a hand in it by just existing as outsiders, that sounds like a her problem. I wouldn't support anyone's attempt on her life, nor would I try myself, so I'm not even implying I agree with that either — and yeah, she probably shouldn't trust the one who tried it on her or his closest allies even — I sure as hell wouldn't if I were in her place — so it's more .. I'd rather that not be taken out on the rest of us. Hence the resentment coming through.
[ So, no, he's not completely disagreeing with Ianthe here. She makes a valid point too. ]
[And she switched to text, letting her thoughts flow.]
Zlatka didn't decide to be here either. She's just been here a long time and is a very powerful person. She has often extended a hand to us in an attempt to answer questions, to forge alliances, and just as often has a good portion of the void-touched spit on that hand. I can see why relations have become as strained as they are.
She requested that we venture into the Void to find part of her power that was taken from her when she first arrived. It's known as the All-Sight. She admitted that none of the Rubeans had the ability or mettle to even try, but we demonstrated that there was a chance we might succeed. Yes, she didn't go herself because the Void is really dangerous and if she died, there would be no one to being anyone back. She believed that with her All-Sight, that she might be able to see beyond the Void and find a path out of here. She made no guarantees.
A lot of went in. It was horrible. Some died. The All-Sight was recovered and brought back. We agreed to go get it for her, yet once we had it, there was a huge discussion about whether we should return it to her or keep it for ourselves. The end result was that a couple people took the All-Sight and negotiated its return to her. This is why we all can understand Rubean, by the way.
After regaining her All-Sight, she was able to push the Void back further from the village. That's where the jungle and mountains comes from. More area uncovered, but no way out found yet. She did find that her heart - another piece of power that had been lost when she arrived - was somewhere but unable to pinpoint it. Again, she asked us for help finding and retrieving it for her. She helped us figure out ways to find it, revealing information we didn't previous have about her powers.
What happened next? She was poisoned. The Void closed in and turned everything into the horror show it was. We find her heart and again someone decides to hold it hostage and someone used magic to bar her heart from entering the village at all. I don't blame her for losing her temper and punishing them.
Zlatka was well within her rights after all that to slam her gates shut and never interact with us again. Instead, she continues to resurrect us without fail. She accepted the invitation to attend the tournament. She allowed any of us to approach her for conversation. And when asked about her enemies, she admitted they existed. I think she's done a lot of work to try to develop a positive rapport with us, but we have to choose to take that hand.
Some of us have. Some of us haven't. Perhaps we should ask more questions, show curiosity, while at least attempting to be respectful of her position. She has a lot of patience, but it's been worn thin. She has been trying, for months, and yes, I do believe we are a resource she wants to direct toward her benefit, but more gets done, more information gleamed, by working within the system instead of yelling from the outskirts.
I don't trust her, Jughead, but I do trust that she will do what benefits her the most. And that is something that can be worked with.
The part about collecting her All-Sight, that's just people in a nutshell. They'll agree to one thing and then nearly go back on it when it has a chance to get them more powers somehow.
[ Also gonna file that one under 'maybe not the smartest move either there, guys'.
He doesn't respond to every point made or brought up, but does take it in and consider it. Ianthe's not wrong about some of these points, but she's also evidently far more comfortable working within systems than he'll ever be, so where differences do lie is probably mostly a matter of perspective on that front. ]
Does she even know how much she might have missing? Or at least that she's said. Because it sounds like it's a lot of danger to go collect them for her, and knowing how many times people might have to do it would also be helpful for us I think
I don't know. I haven't asked her that question. To my knowledge, neither has anyone else. I do know there is more. It seems to me, the more powerful a person is, the more the Void takes from us when we arrive. At this point, if someone asked her, I don't expect a definitive answer. Why would anyone reveal that level of vulnerability? I certainly wouldn't.
But perhaps, when you have the chance, you ask her. You've not openly offended or insulted her. Flatter her and she's more loquacious.
Well, maybe asking "between one and fifty more to find how approximately close is it to thirty.." (I mean, I wouldn't actually word it that specific way, but, eh.)
She's also probably not the kind of person who likes being asked twenty questions at once, so it's just finding the best one to ask first.
hahahah that is genuinely hilarious and I don't even know what kinds of questions they ask, because yes, yes I can be. I have a track record of being perfectly capable and unafraid of becoming insufferable enough to authority figures they crack and answer questions anyway just to get me to leave them alone.
whoops I wrote a novel length tag but at least it's ic to do so LMFAO
Which was also a stupid move that clearly did do some damage to the general reputation of void-touched overall. [ That can't be denied. ]
And, yeah, we might have gotten any info sooner had that not happened.
[ There may be no way to say for sure on that one or not. What was done was done. ]
But, it clearly wasn't an action taken that was agreed upon by all void-touched, so if she's withholding that information that might help everyone — herself and Rubeans included — based on the actions of one, still sounds like she has the bigger trust issues here than some of us do. [ Which is saying something. ] Thus leading to more people not willing to trust her immediately because they don't know if or when she'll turn on them too if one person decides to go be a dumbass.
[ exhibit A of those 'more people': him. ]
But, yeah, sure, there's definitely valid concern that if she talks about her enemies and what they're like, people here who don't like her at all could easily learn strengths and weaknesses on both sides and then use them against her. But at the end of the day, the void-touched didn't decide to be here, so it's not really on us to be the ones to work harder in proving we're worth being trusted. Not to say we shouldn't try at all, but ninety percent of the work isn't ours to do; to lead, she should convince us.
To go on a little bit of a tangent, I could have saved myself so many god damn headaches opting for leading with a little more willingness to offer a second chance instead of removing people for an infraction. [ Even though Cheryl had left her obvious calling card of a lipstick kiss print on a painting while she and Toni were stealing shit in Hiram Lodge's place, kicking her and Toni out of the Serpents for tying the rest of them to it with the obvious evidence, it did wind up splintering the group. So. Not the best move for keeping cohesion. ]
But back to her and here, attempted murder isn't exactly minor, but again, if that one action means all of us need to be looked at like we all had a hand in it by just existing as outsiders, that sounds like a her problem. I wouldn't support anyone's attempt on her life, nor would I try myself, so I'm not even implying I agree with that either — and yeah, she probably shouldn't trust the one who tried it on her or his closest allies even — I sure as hell wouldn't if I were in her place — so it's more .. I'd rather that not be taken out on the rest of us. Hence the resentment coming through.
[ So, no, he's not completely disagreeing with Ianthe here. She makes a valid point too. ]
no worries
[And she switched to text, letting her thoughts flow.]
Zlatka didn't decide to be here either. She's just been here a long time and is a very powerful person. She has often extended a hand to us in an attempt to answer questions, to forge alliances, and just as often has a good portion of the void-touched spit on that hand. I can see why relations have become as strained as they are.
She requested that we venture into the Void to find part of her power that was taken from her when she first arrived. It's known as the All-Sight. She admitted that none of the Rubeans had the ability or mettle to even try, but we demonstrated that there was a chance we might succeed. Yes, she didn't go herself because the Void is really dangerous and if she died, there would be no one to being anyone back. She believed that with her All-Sight, that she might be able to see beyond the Void and find a path out of here. She made no guarantees.
A lot of went in. It was horrible. Some died. The All-Sight was recovered and brought back. We agreed to go get it for her, yet once we had it, there was a huge discussion about whether we should return it to her or keep it for ourselves. The end result was that a couple people took the All-Sight and negotiated its return to her. This is why we all can understand Rubean, by the way.
After regaining her All-Sight, she was able to push the Void back further from the village. That's where the jungle and mountains comes from. More area uncovered, but no way out found yet. She did find that her heart - another piece of power that had been lost when she arrived - was somewhere but unable to pinpoint it. Again, she asked us for help finding and retrieving it for her. She helped us figure out ways to find it, revealing information we didn't previous have about her powers.
What happened next? She was poisoned. The Void closed in and turned everything into the horror show it was. We find her heart and again someone decides to hold it hostage and someone used magic to bar her heart from entering the village at all. I don't blame her for losing her temper and punishing them.
Zlatka was well within her rights after all that to slam her gates shut and never interact with us again. Instead, she continues to resurrect us without fail. She accepted the invitation to attend the tournament. She allowed any of us to approach her for conversation. And when asked about her enemies, she admitted they existed. I think she's done a lot of work to try to develop a positive rapport with us, but we have to choose to take that hand.
Some of us have. Some of us haven't. Perhaps we should ask more questions, show curiosity, while at least attempting to be respectful of her position. She has a lot of patience, but it's been worn thin. She has been trying, for months, and yes, I do believe we are a resource she wants to direct toward her benefit, but more gets done, more information gleamed, by working within the system instead of yelling from the outskirts.
I don't trust her, Jughead, but I do trust that she will do what benefits her the most. And that is something that can be worked with.
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[ Also gonna file that one under 'maybe not the smartest move either there, guys'.
He doesn't respond to every point made or brought up, but does take it in and consider it. Ianthe's not wrong about some of these points, but she's also evidently far more comfortable working within systems than he'll ever be, so where differences do lie is probably mostly a matter of perspective on that front. ]
Does she even know how much she might have missing? Or at least that she's said. Because it sounds like it's a lot of danger to go collect them for her, and knowing how many times people might have to do it would also be helpful for us I think
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But perhaps, when you have the chance, you ask her. You've not openly offended or insulted her. Flatter her and she's more loquacious.
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She's also probably not the kind of person who likes being asked twenty questions at once, so it's just finding the best one to ask first.
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